Messianic JudaismMessianic Judaism Quest has one goal: To stimulate discussion on the subject of Messianic Judaism beyond the scope of what is normally acceptable. A number of subjects have become off-limits within the complicated world of Messianic Judaism and we find this intellectually dishonest and damaging to the movement.
Messianic Judaism Quest asks the hard questions and offers possibilities.
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11 responses so far ↓
1 sc // Jun 18, 2008 at 9:32 pm
there is just 1 body of believers, not a messianic community and a gentile church.
2 admin // Jun 18, 2008 at 9:35 pm
In the end, history does not lie. The “Gentile” church is not concerned or connected with either the wellfare of Jews, Torah, or Israel.
3 admin // Jun 18, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Furthermore the historic anti-Semitism and inherent supercessionism of the “Gentile” church renders your assertion nothing more than theoretical.
4 admin // Jun 18, 2008 at 9:45 pm
The theological differences between the Judaism of Jews who affirm the messianic claims of Yeshua versus the markedly different theological perspectives of most Christians should be clear. This is not to say that Christians are necessarily wrong, nor does it necessarily imply that Christians are right either. We should simply understand that there are clear points of differentiation between Judaism and Christianity. The problem of most Christians and Messianics is that they assume that trust in Yeshua by default implies an affirmation of Christianity.
5 slevi // Jun 19, 2008 at 7:51 pm
In the end, history does not lie. The “Gentile†church is not concerned or connected with either the wellfare of Jews, Torah, or Israel.
I am curious to know, in your opinion, why the fundamentalist Christian right is so concerned with Israel.
Do you view this as a reaction to the holocaust, something devious, eschatology, reaction against militant Islam etc?
6 Jacob // Jun 19, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Evangelical Christians supportive of Israel do so largely based upon their eschatological views. At this point, I am happy someone supports Israel, but I think its important to be able to differentiate the basis for such support. To argue that an positive yet ethereal notion of Israel translates into a positive of Judaism is incorrect. Evangelicals remain firmly negative on the validity of Judaism and hence without wanting to, on the validity of Jewish identity. They are concerned at most with the Jewish background of the Gospel and in contrast to a “Judaism at the forefront” approach. In this sense, the Catholic Church, at least on paper has made major strides which again at least on paper recognize the legitimacy of Judaism and Jewish identity.
7 Daniel // Jun 20, 2008 at 2:04 pm
One example of this disregard is how most missionary groups focused on Jewish evangelism, even the ones led by Jews, have to attack Judaism, Torah and Israel to make their points.
Jewish identity as it is expressed in tradition, observance and the leadership of Rabbis is always downgraded and mocked.
Instead of focusing on Teshuva (repentence) and Kedusha (holiness) like Yeshua did. They bring judgement to the Chosen People for rejecting Christianity and the Torah-less Messiah that has been potraid to them.
8 slevi // Jun 20, 2008 at 7:12 pm
While I am a bit suprised at your comments that the support of Israel is largely based on eschatological views, I would tend to agree that most Christians do not view a Judaism based on Torah and Halakha as legitimate.
I believe part of this reasoning is Sola Scriptura of many non Catholic variations within Christianity. I also believe very few Christians have an understanding as covenants, or at least them being eternal.
As for support for Israel, I personally have observed quite a variety of motivations for this and do not see any of them as being not genuine.
As far as I can tell, those motivated purely out of eschatological views make up the very far right. If I had to choose between that and the more liberal christian denominations such as the one who pulled their investments out of Israel, I would prefer that most christians be very far right…
9 Patrick // Aug 16, 2008 at 12:47 pm
The all trouble is that we the Jews are the more ignorant of our own faith.. ..many have inherited centuries of tradition mixed with our faith as being part of our faith. Where in Judaism it’s said that you are part of the people of G-D when other approve you? We have made people of G-D by obeying his Laws…for centuries many different groups have existed in Judaism and each one tried to impose itself as the true or only way. The followers of Rabbi Yahshua called the Natzaren who were the same following Yochanan the Baptizer have more in common with the Pharisees than the Sadducee’s have . Yet some would like to make us believe today that they are not Jews as if they are the one who set the standard of Judaism. It’s true that many who claim to follow Yahshua teachings base their doctrines on distorted anti Jewish teachings claim that their are not under the Law but we cannot say that for all of them….in fact in our own camp we have many who are still called Jews and yet do not obey the Law…the extreme was calling some homosexuals and others Jews while rejecting people who are obeying the Law of HaShem non Jews because they do not fit not in the Tanahk definition but rather our inherited human tradition…lets set the record straight they are Jews…my problem is the fact they wrongly called themselves Messianic this or that….All Jews are Messianic so there’s no need to add it …it doesn’t make sense …They are Jews full stop.
10 Lindsey // Nov 13, 2008 at 6:01 pm
I didn’t know how else to contact you, so I hope you read this. We need more folks in the Messianic movement who think like you! Are you part of a like-minded congregation? My husband and I are looking to connect with more traditionally-minded folks. Thanks!
11 michael // Feb 25, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Hello,
I am amazed that I have just found your website. I am wondering what you think of groups like the MJRC, in particular their stance on some sort of conversion standard in special circumstances.
As a gentile follower of Torah for the last two and a half years–I have certainly been involved in the extremes that you have discussed. Seeing a need for a stronger understanding, perhaps even among the Jewish followers of Yeshua, of Torah Sh’Bal Peh.
The Torah itself establishes the precedent for Human Judges to interpret and direct the day to day observance of the mitzvot. Again, much of what passes for “Messianic” in the gentile community would seem to not reflect a desire to establish a consistent Halacha, and subsequently legitimize the claims to be a “Torah” people. Rather, gentile “messianic” groups are more seemingly concerned with how to pronounce the unpronounceable name of G-d, exactly which tribe they are from, and how to best attack traditions of the communities to which they were so recently connected.
Normative Judaism is looked on as “Rabbinical” and not the real Judaism that “Y-A-S-H-U-A-H” wants us to follow. There is a continued pervasive mindset that gentiles can do Torah better than “those rabbis”.
It places my family in a difficult position. My oldest daughter looks at herself as more Jewish than gentile. I myself always seem to struggle with labels. In talking to a good friend of mine who is a Jew, a believer, and after being involved in a predominantly gentile “Messianic Jewish ” congregation–chooses to daven at the Orthodox shul here in the city–The term he uses is Ger Toshav.
He related a response that another gentile friend uses when he is asked why he follows Yeshua…”because he brought me to Torah.”
So what of the gentile who has attached himself to the people of Israel. Who really sees nothing of attraction in the gentile church. Who has chosen to be as continuosly observant as he can. Shomer Shabbas, etc. Where do we belong?
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